Posted by: Ticktock | April 14, 2008

Pre-Clovis Poop and Polygamist Mormon Crap

 

The Mormon religion is in need of a major wake-up call after last week’s Texas raid on a polygamist compound full of fundamentalist mormons who are supporting or engaging in blatant pedophilia.  At least 416 victims were removed from harm after a 16 year old girl within the compound blew the whistle on the creeps who were abusing them in the name of all that is Moroni.  The 16 year old who called has yet to be found. 

In related news, scientists have discovered new evidence that resets the date for America’s earliest human settlers.  We now know from radio-carbon dating that the first humans came to America 14,300 years ago.  The answer was revealed to the team of 13 scientists by dating coprolites (fossilized poop) found in the Paisley Caves of Oregon.  The find puts humans in America 1000 years before scientists originally understood.

The early human poop DNA has been analyzed and shown to match with groups that are known to be from Eastern Asia and Mongolia.  This brings me back to the mormon belief that two lost tribes of Israelites came to the new world around 3100 B.C.E. and 600 B.C.E..  Oddly, archaeologists haven’t found any ancient american poop that connects DNA to Israel.  Nor have we found any current DNA evidence worthy of merit from modern Native Americans that would trace their origin to Israel.

We also have a list of lies found in the book of mormon that should be embarrassing to every mormon smart enough to know the word “google”.  Among the evidence of fiction in the Mormon Bible are the constant mention of steel swords, compasses and horse-drawn chariots before any were historically possible.  More fiction can be found by the descriptions of barley, barnyard animals, and vast fotresses- none of which have been proven to exist in pre-Columbus America. 

Also, the mormons describe America as uninhabited, despite the evidence of clovis spears, pre-clovis poop, and… oh yeah, two continents populated with a diversity of native cultures before 600 B.C.E.  Which means that, among other things, the existence of fossilized poop has destroyed the mormon religion in one stinky excretion.  But, we didn’t need a poop to tell us that.  Common sense should guide us not to believe in a religion founded by a guilty con-artist who wore magic glasses to decipher a mysterious golden text about America’s secret tribe of Israelites. 

Nor should we believe that this founder, Mr. Josheph Smith, could speak directly to god, nor that he was ordered by god to sleep with multiple women.  Newsflash!!!  Men will do anything to sleep around with multiple women.  A sure sign that you are in a cult is when the founder is bedding underage women in the name of God.

Another sign you are in a cult?… when you live in a compound in Texas.  Speaking of David Koresh, did you know that he wasn’t the first person to start a Koreshan cult?  Back in the day, people swallowed even worse crap than what the mormons were peddling… like Hollow Earth.  Some things you can’t make up, and some things you can

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Responses

  1. I do not know much about mormons (apart from southpark lol) so I am unable to comment about those aspects, but that article you gave of the 416 victims saved is just disgusting!!!!! Like all things, it is the children who suffer the most…

    Nice find and keep up the great work!
    Cheers!!

  2. Now come one. That one’s just irresponsible. They weren’t Mormons, except for in the same sense that The Church of England is Catholicism.

    The Mormons are guided by the Prophet in Salt Lake; they are mainstream, monogamous, and as a rule disgusted by these little sects.

    My high school girlfriend was a Mormon, and I used to go to church with her family every week, and even had the Elders sicced on me (I spent the evening challenging their origin stories in the same way you’ve done above. It was obvious even to a skeptical 16 year old). But even though I disagreed with them I was never confused about what the Mormons, the Latter-Day Saints themselves, believe about polygamy and how faithful they are to what the Prophet says. They are more dedicated to their leaders than Catholics are to the Pope, and I think that’s saying a lot. So when the Mormons officially rejected polygamy over a century ago it was more than mere lip service.

    Shows like “Big Love” don’t help the stereotyping of Mormons, even if the family is “officially” part of some splinter group. And this group in Texas is also a disgrace. But it’s not the Mormons fault. Credit where credit, and blame where blame.

    I’m a devout, uh, atheist. And so is my wife. But I am very familiar with LDS families. Not only was my high school girlfriend Mormon, but my wife’s entire family is Mormon (not her). They aren’t polygamists, dude. And they wouldn’t have anything to do with these little child-rapists in Texas.

  3. I know that most mormons don’t believe in polygamy. Sorry, I used the acronym LDS out of laziness. I agree with your analogy. Both catholics and protestants are christian, and both polygamists and LDS are mormons.

    These guys in Texas believe that they are following the true teachings of mormonism, and that the rest of the church are wrong. That might make them seem like a rogue band of wierdos if they weren’t following true mormonism. But, they are. The early history of mormonism involves several of it’s founders bedding down with multiple chicks because god spoke to them. Modern mormons may forgive their own origins and explain it away with more secret messages from god, but I won’t.

    There are two things that bother me here. That mormons can’t prove any of the events of their bible (at least christians have context), and that religion has guided old men to rape multiple young ladies.

  4. Mormons. Followers of the prophet Joesph Smith that spoke to the angel Moroni. Moroni.

    Why aren’t they called the Morons?

    Sorry, just trying to interject a little humor toward the cult of weirdos that have more invested in the Boy Scouts of America than any other group. Think about that when you’re considering send off the little one to scouts.

    And while we’re on the subject of cults, remember BPD, one man’s religion is another man’s cult.

  5. Nor have we found any current DNA evidence from modern Native Americans that would trace their origin to Israel.

    The limited geography theory has been touted by Mormon scholars since before Watson and Crick discovered the structure of DNA and long before any DNA evidence against the Book of Mormon. In its simplest form it explains how there is little hope of ever finding a DNA connection between Jews and Native Americans because the population of BOM people was so small compared to the Asian immigrants, a fact show by several DNA studies which point to Asia as the origin of Native Americans. However, there is at least one study that shows ~1% Israeli DNA among certain Native American populations. Of course the authors attribute this to Europeans coming over later, but there is no way of knowing that 100% – if you’re being fair.

    Also, the mormons describe America as uninhabited, despite the evidence of clovis spears, pre-clovis poop, and… oh yeah, two continents populated with a diversity of native cultures before 600 B.C.E.

    This isn’t a true statement. Mormons have never said the American convenient was uninhabited before 600 B.C. In fact, the Book of Mormon itself speaks of a group of people that lived in America much earlier than that (Tower of Babel times). The fact that Native Americans overwhelmingly came from Asia is not a slam dunk against Mormonism. If it was there would be a mass exodus from the Church. And therefore the DNA evidence, while compelling, is also not convincing to many members of the Church.

    nor that he was ordered by god to sleep with multiple women.

    This is a problem for many Christians because by condemning Joseph Smith and other prophets they have to explain the many prophets of the Old Testament that live polygamy, a very difficult feat indeed. It’s hard to justify a condemnation of polygamy while holding up such people as Abraham, Jacob and David (to mention a few).

  6. My kids would never get into the boyscouts anyway. They don’t allow atheists. And my kids are girls 🙂

    This isn’t a true statement. Mormons have never said the American convenient was uninhabited before 600 B.C. In fact, the Book of Mormon itself speaks of a group of people that lived in America much earlier than that (Tower of Babel times).

    I haven’t read all of the book of mormon, so please post a reference. From what I understand, the book of mormon describes America’s aborigines as a damned sub-group of the Israeli pilgrims, the Lamanites, who are an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey who had a “skin of blackness”. I also found this from the book of mormon:

    1:6 Wherefore, I, Lehi, prophesy according to the workings of the Spirit which is in me, that there shall none come into this land save they shall be brought by the hand of the Lord.

    And this:

    1:8 And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance.
    1:9 Wherefore, I, Lehi, have obtained a promise, that inasmuch as those whom the Lord God shall bring out of the land of Jerusalem shall keep his commandments, they shall prosper upon the face of this land; and they shall be kept from all other nations, that they may possess this land unto themselves. And if it so be that they shall keep his commandments they shall be blessed upon the face of this land, and there shall be none to molest them, nor to take away the land of their inheritance; and they shall dwell safely forever.

    And to address this:

    And therefore the DNA evidence, while compelling, is also not convincing to many members of the Church.

    I wonder what would be compelling evidence for mormons. What would it take to change their minds. Would it be the introduction of steel swords, horse-drawn chariots, and compasses to a historical narrative where all those things are impossible? Would it be that the only proof of historical context from their bible comes from their bible itself and no other sources? Would it be that their bible (the “word of god”) is poorly written and translated by a convicted con artist? Take away the DNA evidence, which is actually overwhelmingly compelling, and you still have a mountain of evidence against the mormon bible. And how much evidence from the other side? People grasping for some kind of scientific evidence and finding nothing.

  7. You can’t say that the Mormons, as in LDS Mormons, have to “answer for” these nuts in Texas. I don’t insist that you answer for George Bush just because you happen to profess citizenship in the same country, founded on the same Constitution.

    Mormons are just wrong about a lot of things, and the origins of the religion are more fraudulent and shameful than some others (because, I think, we don’t know the origins of most others). But part of the tradition in LDS is revision through revelation. Mormons today don’t have to answer for nuts in Texas because they believe that God has revealed polygamy to be wrong. That’s not to say that they think God judged the original polygamy as wrong, just that their version of God seems to adapt their directives over time. That is what Mormons who are members of the Church think of as True Mormonism. All the Texas sect shows is that the original directives of the Church, which have sinced been revised, were revised for a good reason.

    And as an aside: Polygamy and child-brides are two different things. In cults with a powerful religious figure as a leader, the one tends to bleed over into the other very easily. But that doesn’t mean that being a polygamist means that you are a child-molester.

  8. I grant that the original post is misleading because I failed to clarify the distinction between these rogue mormons and the followers of the established religion based in Utah. You were right to correct me.

    I don’t regret any of the points I made, though. Most mormons are good people, but the criminals who abuse that religion have nothing to hide behind but their interpretation of the religion itself. Same goes for terrorists who act in the name of Islam. Their hatred and zealotry opens the entire religion to criticism and analysis, but the issue of scientific and historical accuracy is still valid and worthy of discussion whether we are talking about peaceful muslims and mormons or crazy hijackers and polygamist child abusers.

    I think it’s fair to examine the facts behind mormon history, whether it be to preserve established truths over spiritual myths or to confront the fringe criminals within that religion. But, I do understand that religion is deeply personal and sensitive. It’s a fine line that I tread writing this blog, and I haven’t decided whether to be passive or agressive on sensitive topics. On the one hand, I don’t want to be judgemental and condescending, but on the other hand, I want to defend my own beliefs in scientific inquiry and reason.

  9. I’m with you, brother. As I mentioned above, I spent an evening with the Elders being skeptical at them about their origin stories.

    It didn’t help their cause that I’m also Native. So I was balancing 3 different origin stories that night, and theirs just wasn’t adding up whatsoever. Magical vanishing gold plates in a hill?

    Come on.

    Amen to inquiry.

  10. I haven’t read all of the book of mormon, so please post a reference.

    The Introduction page of the Book of Mormon explains my point nicely:

    “The record gives an account of two great civilizations. One came from Jerusalem in 600 B.C., and afterward separated into two nations, known as the Nephites and the Lamanites. The other came much earlier when the Lord confounded the tongues at the Tower of Babel.

    You can also read the Book of Ether (if you choose to) to confirm this. The Book of Mormon does not exclude the migration of people from other lands (Such as Asia). It only claims to be a record of these two civilizations and nothing else. Many Mormon scholars believe that the Nephite/Lamanite populations where small and eventually became “over run” by Asian populations thus eliminating their genetic footprint (A scientifically plausible argument). Today only a member of the LDS faith that has not spent much time thinking about it will call all Native Americans Lamanites. This could not possibly be true.

    America’s aborigines as a damned sub-group of the Israeli pilgrims, the Lamanites, who are an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey who had a “skin of blackness”.

    A common misconception, I don’t blame you at all for falling into that trap. Even some LDS members make the same mistake.

    I wonder what would be compelling evidence for mormons.

    I think the evidence against Mormonism is compelling, I just don’t think it is strong enough to disprove the Mormon faith. One thing is for sure; it will take strong evidence to convince a member brought up in the faith. You can’t just point to the absence of something (e.g. archeological evidence, lack of DNA evidence) as proof, the limited geography theory is a rational and scientific answer to those concerns.

    Whatever anyone thinks of the Mormon faith it is no crazier than other Christian faiths or religions in general. However, there is enough good found in it and enough logic to support it to keep members hanging on with faith (as there is in most religions) and this is why it continues to grow despite the seeming “evidence” against it.

  11. Hold on there, pal! I just checked out your source on the LDS web site. You only gave part of the original quote from the introduction. You must’ve known that I would fact check your source. Why make up things? Here is what it actually says after your quote…

    This group is known as the Jaredites. After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians.

    The Jaredites are the civilization to which you are referring, and they carry with them their own list of problems. The first of which is that their civilization was wiped out with no evidence of their existence.

  12. Did I miss something? You said:

    Also, the mormons describe America as uninhabited, despite the evidence of clovis spears, pre-clovis poop, and… oh yeah, two continents populated with a diversity of native cultures before 600 B.C.E.

    The Book of Mormon does not make that claim. To the contrary it does say that before 600 B.C. a civilization lived here. You are welcome to check out my source, I have no problems with that. It would also help to have a basic understanding of the Book of Mormon.

    The introduction also points out that the Book of Mormon only claims to be a history of these two civilizations (as I pointed out before). It is NOT a complete history of the American continent, but a limited history of a small group. So stated differently, the BOM is not a history of those that crossed the land bridge from Asia into America or from any other route. It is only what it says it is the history of the Nephite/Lamanite/Jaredite people.

  13. #1 I specifically quoted where the mormon bible DOES make the claim that the land was uninhabited. “That they may possess the land unto themselves”

    #2 You said “Today only a member of the LDS faith that has not spent much time thinking about it will call all Native Americans Lamanites. This could not possibly be true.” I corrected you by quoting the same introduction from the mormon bible. You missed the fact that you were completely wrong.

    #3 From your previous comment “You can’t just point to the absence of something”- Actually, I can point to the absence of something. The burden of proof is on the group of people who choose to believe in something that defies common sense, history, archaeology, science, and established verifiable facts. It isn’t just the “absence of something” we are talking about, it is the absence of any evidence at all that back up the context of the mormon narrative. At least with the gospels we have contemporary historical figures that fit into the myth. Nehi, Lehi, and Moroni are all fabricated names that aren’t fit to be in a Tolkein novel. Mormonism doesn’t even make good science fiction.

    #4 You can’t just omit an entire civilization, an entire race of people, from the narrative of a story. And, in fact, the native americans are not omitted; they are explained to be lamanites. Despite your protests, mormons believe that lamanites are what we know as native americans. Which would mean that your point about the mormon bible being exclusive to these “small” civilizations is without merit.

  14. #1 The Book of Mormon is not a “Mormon Bible”, though Mormons do believe it to be scripture like the Bible. The verses you quote from do not preclude America from being inhabited before Lehi’s family. You are assuming that the land that is uninhabited is the entire American contenent, something the verses don’t even claim. You may have a better understanding once you have actually read the entire Book of Mormon (If you choose to do so).

    #2 I fail to see how you corrected me. I think this also stems from the fact that you have not read the entire Book of Mormon (In fact, not all the Jaradites died out but you wouldn’t know that from the introduction).

    #3 I’m assuming you are an atheist because most religions are based in faith. All of them fall apart when you demand physical proof of the events they claim. Did Jesus rise or was he taken from his tomb like the Jews claimed? Where are all the Jewish slaves that inhabited Egypt?, etc. I understand your doubt any reasonable person would doubt these things.

    #4 In fact, you can exclude an entire race of people from the narrative of the Book of Mormon. It only claims to be the history of three civilizations, none of which came from Asia. So to try and make it fit with the Native American is kind of silly. I will freely admit that some Mormons in the past and even now still believe that Native Americans are Lamanites, but the book itself never makes this claim. It’s all there in black and white for anyone to see. If people want to impose a view that the book itself does not convey that is their business.

  15. This is fun.

    #1 You are assuming that there is dude called Lehi with a family that came to America in 600 BCE. I’m going to assume that the verses are fiction and leave it at that… I’m not going to be dragged into a debate about the details of a fictional book that you don’t even really believe in.

    #2 The Jaradites are not real. They are an imaginary tribe that never existed in the real world… only in some dude’s head. Even if they were real, they wouldn’t be relevant to the topic that America was inhabited before they arrived and after their imaginary civilization supposedly died out.

    #3 I’m an atheist, but you failed to address my central point that the gospels have historical context while mormon history does not.

    #4 The book itself has an introduction that YOU QUOTED, which states clearly that native americans are lamanites. What you are doing is trying to rationalize your former religion with what you know to be historical discrepancies that are impossible to reconcile. You can make excuses all day for mormon fiction if it makes you feel better, but please understand that you are stuck in a cycle of brainwashing that you are slowly starting to understand. I suggest you move away from Utah or wherever you live and rehabilitate yourself from this disease of mormonism.

  16. #1 Very good, we both agree that we are making assumptions, not necessarily supported by fact.

    #2 I believe I pointed out that they did not all die out (A fact that your cursory knowledge of the Book of Mormon could not possibly give you).

    #3 You fail to recognize that it is silly to compare Mormonism against “gospels” that you believe to be fallacious as well.

    #4 The introduction is merely one person’s interpretation of the Book of Mormon. The actual text of the Book never claims to be the writings of Native Americans.

    Thank you for your sincere assessment of my mental state. However, I never said that I completely believe or agree with the LDS Church. In some ways I’m playing devil’s advocate. Nevertheless, it is disturbing how some with only a vague understanding of the LDS faith feel they know enough to adequately dismiss it. DNA and lack of archeological evidence do not disprove the Book of Mormon. Those arguments are compelling, but have logical explanations.

    The burden of proof may be on the LDS faith, but their proof is largely of a spiritual nature (though there are some interesting physical evidences [e.g. chiasmus in BOM, correlation in BOM Isaiah chapters with the dead sea scrolls]). As with all spiritual evidence, you can never show it to be true through physical means (e.g. that Jesus was born of a virgin or resurrected, that Muhammad was visited by angels, the earth was completely flooded or Adam and Eve were real people, etc.).

    I understand how one can view any religion, including Mormonism, with a skeptical eye. I don’t blame you or anyone else for believing it is a fraud. As you alluded to I have had similar thoughts about my faith (and others), which I continue to struggle with and adjust to, as any honest person would.

    Sadly, your reference to Mormonism as a disease shows your intolerance for diversity of thought. I have noted the same lack of respect in many atheists, which fails to convince me that believing as such is in a person’s best interest.

    Your knowledge of Mormonism is lacking, but I don’t suppose your view of it would change even if you better understood it. Mormonism, as with many religions, has inspired much more good in the world than evil. At the very least that justifies it worth.

  17. Ha. I just read that the mormon church secretly changed the introduction to the BOM last November to say “and they are among the ancestors of the American Indians”. Why? Because the DNA evidence is against them. But, we’ll just ignore the fact that the mormon church has believed the lie that lamanites are native americans for the past century.

    My knowledge of mormonism is certainly not the equivalent of an x-mormon, but you haven’t convinced me that I’m completely wrong. For instance, you keep going on about the jaredites surviving, and how I’m mormon illiterate on the subject.

    Moroni begins the record (1:1 & 5) by referring to the Jaredites as “those ancient inhabitants who were destroyed.” Further, Moroni uses this destruction as an object lesson, prophesying that any inhabitants of the Promised Land who did not serve the Lord would eventually be destroyed as were the Jaredites (Ether 8:22; 9:20).

    Atheists don’t all think the same way. Rest assured that you can stop believing in God without turning to someone disrespectful like myself. Young mormons are expected to spread the religion around the globe through missionary work. There are over 50,000 missions. Mormonism is the fastest growing religion. A disease also spreads rapidly to areas that don’t want it.

    Mormons also have a hard time breaking free from their religion. Families disown ex-mormons, the church ex-communicates them, and their lives become miserable. In some cases, such as with the polygamists, mormon children are not only forced to be mormon but forced to marry old dudes and have their babies. Diseases are similarly hard to eliminate. Perhaps we could go to your blog and see your testimonies about these problems?

    If you can’t see the actual physical evidence that many people have laid out then maybe you should stay a mormon. To say that the only evidence is spiritual in nature is to completely ignore the mountain of physical evidence. What can I say to you that won’t cause you to move the goalposts even more? DNA evidence, lamanite debunking, compass and sword anachronisms- what could possibly make you stop buying the lies that you’ve been force-fed. Your arguments come from mormon apologists who are eager to fix the mess that the BOM left them.

    Lastly, I do not doubt that mormons have done good, but I strongly disagree that a widespread rapidly growing religion based on lies is worthy of worship.

  18. Ha. I just read that the mormon church secretly changed the introduction to the BOM last November to say “and they are among the ancestors of the American Indians”.

    There were press releases in public newspapers announcing the change. In fact, the change further supports what I said before about the introduction being one person’s view of the Book of Mormon (i.e. it is not part of the Book of Mormon and therefore can be changed as understanding of the Book evolves).

    For instance, you keep going on about the jaredites surviving, and how I’m mormon illiterate on the subject.

    Do yourself a favor and just finish reading the Book.

    Mormonism is the fastest growing religion. A disease also spreads rapidly to areas that don’t want it.

    No, the fastest growing religion is Islam. If people didn’t want Mormonism, Islam or other religions they wouldn’t keep growing.

    Families disown ex-mormons, the church ex-communicates them, and their lives become miserable.

    Some families might but I think they are the extreme (not to mention this extreme can be found among any group, not just religious ones). I personally know that as a whole this is not true. I know many ex-Mormons that still associate with their families and are still accepted by them. The Church doesn’t excommunicate someone just for not believing in its doctrine. A pretty serious transgression has to take place before that happens. Their life only become miserable if they let it be so, the Church doesn’t make the excommunicated miserable.

    Perhaps we could go to your blog and see your testimonies about these problems?

    You and anyone else are welcome at Mormons talk. They can go there by simply clicking on my name. I am always interested in discussing things from different points of view.

    If you can’t see the actual physical evidence that many people have laid out then maybe you should stay a mormon.

    I am a Mormon (not an ex-Mormon). I choose to stay despite what I perceive as problems because I see that the LDS faith has a lot to offer an individual. It is what I know best and although I have attended other churches, I feel that it most reflects what I personally believe, even if I disagree with some of it. The point is I know the criticisms you have thrown out, rather haphazardly, and find them to be valid arguments against the LDS faith. However, I also understand that they are not fool proof. There are logical scientific explanations for them.

    I strongly disagree that a widespread rapidly growing religion based on lies is worthy of worship.

    Mormons don’t worship the Church, they worship Christ. Just thought that should be pointed out. I understand why you have that opinion and I can respect that, but I don’t agree.

  19. Islam is the fastest growing religion. Thanks for the correction. Not that mormons aren’t trying, right?

    Thanks for the spirited debate. Glad you have a good attitude about the whole thing!

  20. LOL! Yes, Mormons do try pretty hard 50,000+ missionaries. I wish you the best.

  21. I respectfully disagree:
    Oddly, archaeologists haven’t found any ancient american poop that connects DNA to Israel. Nor have we found any current DNA evidence worthy of merit from modern Native Americans that would trace their origin to Israel.

    I say that this post is full of CRAP. there has been Isreali DNA found in a group of native americans its called Haplogroup X. Therefore there is evidences that the book of mormon is true. DNA PROVES it!!!

    Another lie: (or lack of true research)

    Among the evidence of fiction in the Mormon Bible are the constant mention of steel swords, compasses and horse-drawn chariots before any were historically possible. More fiction can be found by the descriptions of barley, barnyard animals, and vast fotresses- none of which have been proven to exist in pre-Columbus America.

    They have found the remains of vast fortresess in the ohio great lake area. But unlike you may think they were not made of stone.

    You said:
    The Mormon religion is in need of a major wake-up call after last week’s Texas raid on a polygamist compound full of fundamentalist mormons who are supporting or engaging in blatant pedophilia. At least 416 victims were removed from harm after a 16 year old girl within the compound blew the whistle on the creeps who were abusing them in the name of all that is Moroni. The 16 year old who called has yet to be found.

    Just to let you know there was no sixteen year old girl. There was no abuse. Only well “sheltered” raised kids.

    You stated:
    Nor should we believe that this founder, Mr. Josheph Smith, could speak directly to god, nor that he was ordered by god to sleep with multiple women. Newsflash!!! Men will do anything to sleep around with multiple women. A sure sign that you are in a cult is when the founder is bedding underage women in the name of God.

    So you are condemning all of GODS Prophets who Practiced polygamy such as abraham issac jacob moses solomon david? They walked and talked with GOD and THE SAVIOR but yet they were “sleeping around” with women? Seems a little contradicory to me.

    I therefore conclude that you did very little true reseach and just relied on the backs of others who did not do the full research. This article is CRAP!!!! Maybe you should research the Indians in the greatlake area then re do this post.

    God Bless you:)

  22. Funny that someone who believes in a religion founded by a convicted con artist would call my post “crap”.

    Haplogroup X, much to your delusional dismay, is NOT exclusive to Israeli. You also failed to mention that it was only found in 3% of native descendants.

    I noticed that you skipped the part about compasses, steel swords, and wheat and barley. But, I’m so glad that they found your fort in the great lakes valley. The mormon god is proven. *rolls eyes*

    Girls who are brainwashed and harvested to be the child-brides for delusional pedophiles are not “well raised kids”. I wonder what Elissa Wall would say about the subject.

    I find it just as likely that the old testament characters were just as horny and stupid as Joseph Smith. I could care less about any of them, since they are fictional characters in an ancient collection of fairytales.

    I can research the great lakes indians all day long, but it can’t explain away the Book of Moron’s lousy writing, the historical anachronisms, or it’s inherent racism. Go read “Under the Banner of Heaven” and come back to apologize.

    I don’t believe in God, and yet I’m still blessed. You would have thought he’d have struck me down with lightning by now. 🙂

  23. This incident was pretty gross but these people are fringe. Time would be better spent unveiling the entrenched bigotry in the mainstream mormon organization. My ancestors pushed handcarts to Utah so I know of what I speak!


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