Posted by: Ticktock | May 4, 2008

The Fallacy of Raw Milk

Some people are worried that the vitamins and nutrients found in the standard gallon of grocery store milk are not enough. They say we need our milk straight from the udder, before it has a chance to be stripped of it’s healthy qualities and super bacteria.  These people are raw milk advocates, and they want to take us back several centuries to a time when modern medicine and science didn’t muddy up the purity of their bovine beverages. But what are they talking about? Is there any merit in their argument? Does it really make that much of a difference? I hope to explore the answers to those questions in this very post.

Briefly, French microbiologist Louis Pasteur and Claude Bernard developed pasteurization, warming beverages to a pre-boil, in 1862 to prevent germs from contaminating wine. Before Pasteur, diseases such as tuberculosis, brucellosis, diphtheria, scarlet fever, and Q-feverwere commonly found in beverages such as milk, but people didn’t even know it since germ theory was in it’s infancy. Today’s raw milk may contain all kinds of unhealthy passengers such as salmonella, Lysteria monocytogenes, yersinia enterocolitica, and e.coli bacteria.

Raw milk advocates ignore the benefits of pasteurized milk and even go so far as to claim that drinking unmolested milk will boost your immune system and prevent disease. One of the leading advocates quacking about raw milk is Dr. Mercola, an osteopath, who has said “I have seen so many of my patients recover their health with raw milk that I perceive this as one of the most profoundly healthy foods you can consume,”.  Dr. Mercola has uttered all kinds of crazy things.  His web site says that he believes “This higher intelligence, which we call the ‘Health’ is conscious, precognitive, omnipresent and is a direct reflection of the Divine.”  Deep thoughts by Dr. Mercola.

Time magazine’s recent article on the topic quoted Susan Mueller’s “success” introducing raw milk to the diet of her two daughters.

“the previous year, she had bronchitis, an ear infection, a urinary-tract infection and three or four colds. This year she missed two days of school all winter.”

This is a prime example of Correlation Does Not Imply Causation.  Just because her daughter was sick one year and not sick as much the next, doesn’t mean that raw milk boosted her child’s immune system.  One would have to point to double blind controlled studies to prove a link between raw milk and immunity.  One would also have to have some kind of known mechanism for how something like raw milk could prevent ear and urinary tract infections.  On the face, the idea is absurd. lists all kinds of fallacious arguments for raw milk.  I’ll list them here, and respond to each one.

  • Raw Milk was used as a medicine centuries ago.  Was this before or after doctors were bleeding sick patients with leeches?  Was this before or after scientists understood germ theory?  This argument is an Appeal to Antiquity.  Just because an idea is older, doesn’t make it more correct.
  • Raw milk is the “stem cell” of food.  Stem cells basically have the potential to be any other kind of cell.  They’re like an uncommited superdelegate, if you catch my metaphor.  But I digress, what is he talking about here?  This seems to be a crude Ambiguos Assertion and Argument by Slogan– a fancy saying that means nothing, but seems intelligent, and ultimately not a quality argument.
  • You could live on it exclusively if you had to. Indeed, published accounts exist of people who have done just that. This is a hard one for me, but I think it may be a combination of Argument of Generalization and Appeal to Anonymous Authority.  Just because some people have been known to diet exclusively on raw milk (babies?) doesn’t mean that it’s better for you than pasteurized.  The source of this fact is not cited because it is probably an equivocation.

The FDA claims that pasteurization does not diminish any of the milk’s essential proteins, vitamins, or any other nutrients, much to the consternation of the raw advocates.  They also list a number of examples of raw milk causing widespread sickness, including a case in my home state of Ohio.  Most of the “benefits” of raw milk are the same as pasteurized, but the comparison of benefits between the two are often ignored by the believers.  They insist that just because something is “natural” it must be better.  But, such a belief is a slippery slope– I doubt they would extend that belief to eating uncooked meat.

Pasteurized milk can hardly be called a threat to society.  Even the pure dairy fanatics will tell you that there is nothing harmful or dangerous about distributing heat to milk for the purpose of killing bacteria.  It disturbs me that people would take that risk of exposing their children to disease so that they can get a few extra bacteria and a creamier tasting milk.  I say go with a cup of Activia and a glass of soy* ultra-pasteurized organic milk and you’re good to go.  The idea of drinking the contents of a dumb mammal’s teat has become less and less appealing the older I get.

*All beverages being fair… I threw soy milk under the bus.

*UPDATE*  Raw milk share program shut down because of illnesses, including one person paralyzed in the hospital.


  1. The FDA will continue to list reasons why raw milk is not a healthful food to consume. Why? Because the FDA has every interest in doing so. The FDA and the mainstream dairy industry work hand in hand and provide support to one another in many ways…and the FDA has every reason to support drinking pasteurized versus raw because those who drink pasteurized milk are much more likely to develop allergies and many health issues such as IBS, Crohn’s Disease, ulcers, acid reflux, Leaky Gut, candida-related problems, and many others. When that many people are having health issues, what do they do? They go straight to their doctors who will prescribe any number of medications to “alleviate” these problems such as Claritin for allergies and Prevacid for acid reflux, just to name a few. And then those same people will often continue to consume the “food” that is giving them grief in the first place.

    Pasteurized dairy is just not a good answer to our health problems. In this case, something that was done for millenia is better than the modern alternative. Live, probiotic bacterial support which the immune system desperately needs cannot be substituted in some manufactured product like activa, which is full of sugar and chemicals, and has also been pasteurized, therefore rendering the original good bacteria dead. Drinking pasteurized milk and eating pasteurized dairy products is basically consuming dead foods that contain little to no live enzymes for life, and a lot of damaged, denatured fats and proteins that the body simply cannot digest or absorb properly. In fact, ingesting damaged fats and proteins is just one of the reasons why so many people in America are developing heart disease and obesity. See Agriculture Society’s article on Why The Consumption of Milk is Harmful to Your Health.

    • Hey, I’ve also heard that the Mexican government is working hand in hand with FDA to spike the water so American tourists MUST buy expensive medicine to stop their runny shits. Those bastards! I also heard that AS is colluding with big Pharma to cause headaches induced by her inane logic.

      By all means AS, please drink unpasteurized milk. Please ride a motorcycle very fast without a helmet, don’t wear your seatbelt, enjoy the water in Mexico, and play catch with that loaded hand gun…you’ll be fine. But please do even the slightest bit of research to find out how many people – children – were seriously sick or died of milk related food poisoning prior to pasteurization.

      By the way, you science geek you, enzymes are not “live”.

  2. You’ve convinced me. I’ll stay away from milk of any kind. You haven’t shown me how raw milk and pasteurized milk are any different. And you have failed to offer any evidence to support your claim. What is your proof that the FDA is working “hand in hand” with the mainstream dairy industry? Why should I believe that there is a dairy conspiracy, when the more likely answer is that the FDA wants to protect people from horrible diseases?

  3. Raw milk was not just used centuries ago. It was used since the beginning of RECORDED HISTORY.

    Why is that significant? Because over all that time, it has aided in the survival of human kind. Generation after generation have felt it’s goodness.

    But anyhow, I am not against boiled milk, as it has also been consumed with great benefit to billions of people over time.

    HOMOGENIZATION, reconstitution, and Pasteurizationon, the other hand, are (relatively) EXTREMLY NEW. That means we don’t know the effects of them in the long term.

    I do not believe that these processes remove all the vitamins, but I do believe that these processes kill the friendly bacteria and enzymes that a mother cow provides for the immune system of her babies and us.

    Anyhow, I love drinking raw milk everyday.

    Speaking of leeches! Leeches are FDA approved and used all over the world in different kinds of medicines for different kinds of problems.

  4. Farmed milk is indeed one of our ancestors’ most nutritious beverages, but we’ve gained so much knowledge in the last century alone that it would be unfair to diminish recent advancements under the umbrella of antiquated ignorance that preceded the modern era.

    We actually do know the long term non-effects of pasteurization. We’ve been pasteurizing milk long enough for it to have been used for multiple generations now. We also know the effects of drinking raw milk, as we’ve seen areas of the population recently become sick from it.

    Leeches are used in modern medicine for completely different reasons now, and certainly not as the primary technique for every health problem as before.

    You are more than welcome to drink raw milk. The chances are slim that it’ll make you ill, and similarly slim that it will cure you of any health problems. My goal with this post was to detangle fact from fiction.

  5. […] or not.  Who knows?  I do know one thing, the raw milk theory needs to come with a warning – don’t try this at home! Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Sign Language Reality CheckPregnant Women […]

  6. Between 20 and 40% of adults are allergic to dairy products, and specifically processed dairy. We think we’ve advanced with all this scientific research when we are killing the nutrition in our food. Milk has been used by human beings for thousands maybe milions of years. And used primarily in its raw state. If it was so deadly humanity would not have survived. The necessary ingredients which pasteurisation destroys are the living enzymes. Enzymes are required to effectively digest food and secure the nutrition inherent in the food. Please look up Dr. Pottenger and his research with cats and raw versus cooked milk. Cats who consumed cooked milk were infertile within 3 generations; cats who consumed exclusively raw milk were healthy and fertile for 3 generations and beyond. Also Pasteur recanted his germ theory at his death bed, saying, “Ther germ is nothing. The terrain is everything”. Meaning a weak organism will succumb to a germ, a healthy organism will destroy it. However, germ theory has become a big business (pharmaceutical industry, medical establishment, food industry all profit by having the masses believe the germ theory. The bottom line is the dairy industry triples its profits by having laws like pasteurisation passed by the FDA. It increases the shelf life of their product. The reason why they are killing the milk is it is a huge boost to the profits of the dairy industry. The isolated cases cited as to why raw milk is dangerous are used to scare a trusting public. Often times the cases are themselves lies, said loud enough and long enough so everyone just assumes its true.
    Another indicator in the superiority of raw milk is cheese. Most world class cheeses are made from raw milk. Go figure!!
    Also many diseases can be traced to over consumption of cooked dairy products.
    Good luck, and be healthy! Eat RAW!!!!

    • Only 2%-3% of children are allergic to milk and most outgrow it. So, you are starting off with a huge whopper.

      Milk has been used in it’s raw state during the time when the life expectancy was half what it is now, so what’s your point? And nobody said it was “so deadly”… just that pasteurized milk is healthier. Humans have enzymes too. We don’t need milk enzymes. In case you didn’t notice, cows are big hairy mammals that are no relation to humans. Their enzymes are used to break down grass, which we can’t even eat.

      I can find no credible source that Pasteur made that quote on his death bed, so I’m confident that it’s either made up, wrongly attributed, or out of context. In any case, we have excellent microscopes and an entire community of doctors and scientists that say you are full of baloney. Curing germs has become a big business because it saves lives. Does making money invalidate a life-saving business? Does not everyone make money?

      The cases of raw milk deaths are not lies. You should back up your false statements with some kind of evidence. This is not the blog for you to spout your nonsense. I defy you to prove that many diseases can be attributed to cooked dairy products. Give me one non-crackpot source, one shred of evidence for your nonsense, or otherwise, stop spreading lies on rational web sites.

  7. I came across this nonsense about raw milk yesterday on Digg and was going to post my own article on my blog, skeptologic. Thanks for saving me the time Skepticdad, your debunking of their crazy claims is spot on. This kind of nonsensical pseudoscience is extremely dangerous when it comes to our food supply. I emailed Brian Dunning about it, hopefully he will give it the full Skeptoid treatment!

  8. 1. Pasteur didn’t invent the heating process for milk – it was for wine.
    2. Pasteurization favors huge, filthy factory farms.
    3. Many lactose-intolerant people CAN drink raw milk, I am one of them. Until I began to drink it in Europe while stationed there, I believed I could never drink milk again. Now, with raw milk, I drink 1-2 quarts a day and have no problems.
    4. Our bodies are crawling with germs, and so is all our food. I pick the friendly bacteria of grass-fed cows which are not horribly flatulent from grain.
    K. Minnesota

  9. @K.Johnson

    Thanks for pointing out that Pasteur did not experiment with milk. I fixed the text to reflect your correction.

  10. The great merits of raw milk is enzymes and antibodies that help the cubs to survive after delivery the same as the human milk. Think before believing this article:

    1. Do you pasteurize the pumped breastmilk before feeding the little ones? why not? because pasteurization will kill the enzymes and antibodies that help babies to survive.
    2. If raw diary is dangerous, there will be no nomadic ethnic groups in this world.
    3. modern hygiene and regulation makes the raw milk safe to drink without worrying.

    • We produce our own enzymes and antibodies once we become old enough to ween.
      1. I think there’s a huge difference between milk that comes from a relatively clean human nipple, and milk that comes from the udder of a heifer who lays down in her own filth. Believe it or not, there’s plenty of adults who survive without drinking any milk at all.
      2. Whether nomadic ethnic groups consumed raw dairy, there are several documented cases of raw milk being contaminated with pathogens and causing sickness.
      3. By “modern hygiene and regulation”, you mean pasteurizing.

    • 1. You *CAN* pasteurize breastmilk. Breastmilk banks pasteurize breastmilk to reduce the risk of spreading pathogens. As for the enzymes and antibodies in raw dairy, those antibodies are great — if you are a calf, goatkid or lamb.

      2. Nomadic tribes tend to be small. They die of things, y’know. Brucella, Listeria, Coxiella, Salmonella, Campylobacter… I could go on. Not everyone dies, of course. But not all of them survive to adulthood.

      3. Even the cleanest of cows crap on themselves. The udders are pretty close to where poop comes out. I was on a dairy farm in Parma, where they produce milk for parmagiano-reggiano cheese (an aged, raw milk cheese). The cows peed and pooped all over the place. And this was no fly-by-night business. They took care of their cows, managed them well, fed them real grass, gave them plenty of space. Cows are just filthy creatures.

  11. “. If raw diary is dangerous, there will be no nomadic ethnic groups in this world.”

    Actually, most nomadic groups in Asia process their milk by drying it in the sun to make cheese. They may drink it with honey after it’s boiled, but not often. Very few just drink the raw milk. They think it’s dangerous. I’m not sure about in Africa but I think there are very, very few who drink raw milk.

    And it’s silly to say that if raw milk were dangerous, nomadic groups would not exist. It doesn’t have to have a rate of causing illness in 100% of its consumers to be dangerous. But the fact is that most milk-processing evolved from people realizing that it is dangerous.

    I drink raw milk when I know the cow and she lives alone without exposure to a lot of other farm animals, and her keepers know her and what it might look like if she were ill. In other words, from a personal cow. Not otherwise.

  12. “Farmed milk is indeed one of our ancestors’ most nutritious beverages”

    Depends who “our” ancestors are.

  13. All of you advocates’ arguments might be valid if humans required non-human milk to survive. You guys make it sound like we would die without cow’s milk. The truth is that most humans are not capable of properly digesting milk in any way shape or form in the first place, and we certainly don’t need cow’s milk to survive. In fact, one can lead a long healthy life without ever touching a drop of dairy and many of the world’s inhabitants do. So many of your arguments clearly hold no water.

    I understand that you are clinging to your narrative which states that natural/old-fashioned is good and the man is out to get you, but you are trying to take us back to the scientific dark ages before germ theory. Guys you can see these pathogens in a microscope – they are real and disease outbreaks can be traced to the source through DNA analysis.

    I agree that industrial milk from animals that are pumped full of hormones and antibiotics so that they can survive being forced to stand in their own feces is deplorable. However, even Bessy the barn yard cow carries pathogens that can make you sick. This is effin science people!

    Why not have the best of both worlds and drink local, organic, pasteurized milk. Now you can avoid the nasty stuff, boycott the man, and prevent bloody diarrhea all at the same time.

    • The two year old article is about pasteurization, not whether milk is an essential nutrient. My sister grew up quite nicely without drinking any milk since she has been severely lactose intolerant since her very premature birth. The diarrhea came from the lack of lactase in her system. So even drinking pasteurized milk from a local organic dairy would not help. And tofu is her friend.

      But I do love milk, and the genetic variation that lets me and most of my family drink was handy in getting protein and minerals on less land (those multiple bovine stomachs make plants more suited for the humans with a specific mutation). One dairy product will soon be part of an article that I will finish writing as soon as I get some holiday obligations out of the way (like decorating the tree that I spent an eternity waiting for the pickiest spouse in the world choose).

  14. This person sounds like an advocate for pumping breast milk and cooking it before you feed it to your baby. And I can assure you a goat’s diet is far cleaner and healthier than a breast feeding momma on a standard American diet consisting of sugar, caffeine, junk food and processed foods. Modern technology may be great but it is wreaking havoc on our digestive system. The way we did things back in Paleolithic times still works for us today with regards to our health and food consumption.

    • Do you typically fail to wash your hands after using the toilet before breastfeeding? How is your house much like a cow barn where manure management is a major issue?

      • Chris- The real issue here is the torture and inhumane treatment of cows. The dairy industry feed cows grain products. All of these industries know that when you feed an animal grain products it causes e. coli in their gut. Therefore you now have a sick cow or goat milk. You also have toxic manure, plus since these animals are fed a diet that is not natural to their diet they have to feed them antibiotics, growth hormones, etc. So now you have a sick cow producing toxic milk and pooing toxic manure on the ground then eating grass that the manure has been sitting and composting back in the ground. That is why we hear stories of e.coli on spinach, it is because the soil was fertilized with toxic grain manure. That is why are soil is so depleated. We were never menat to eat grains in the consumption people eat them today. Cows do not natural gravitate to grains, it is a harvested product that not even a human would gravitate to if they lived in the wild. It takes too much effort to harvest grains by hand. The sad thing is we torture these animals by confining them and forcing them to eat grains rather than their natural diet of alfalfa. So the real question is, why do people insist on drinking dirty, filthy cooked milk? The milk is so toxic and nasty in its raw form, there is no way they can feed it to the public, so pasteurize it! Every time you drink milk, you are drinking dirty filthy toxic milk. Wash your dirty hands and save the water, put it in a pot and cook it and then drink it. Does that sound appealing to you? The mass majority have been lied to, you have been lied to. Raw milk coming from a happy grass fed goat is natural and healthy, it is what makes a baby goat thrive and grow, and for those human mommas who can not breastfeed the best substitute is raw goat milk for their babies. Please do your research. Raw is best especially raw fruits and vegetables. FACT: Raw foods heals. How did men survive before pasteurization? Over 50 million people suffer from lactose tolerance from pasteurized milk than any one person dying over raw milk consumption. If fact you can not find anywhere even in past history where people or children died from raw milk. More people die from peanuts and have severe peanut allergies and shellfish than consuming raw milk. The fact is raw goat milks cure people of many ailments and the BIG dairy industries know this and want to stop little raw milk shares.

  15. BTW- When you pasteurize milk it kills the enzymes that allow you to digest milk. I have put many clients that were lactose intolerant on raw milk and they thrived. Remember raw milk should always come from an animal fed only grasses and alfalfa. Grains are toxic to humans and animals. Do you want to cure arthritis, cellulite, weight problems, diabetes, cancer, etc? Give up grains, and I mean all harvest grains: sugar, beans, wheat, barley, seeds, anything that would take you hours to hand pick and harvest yourself. Go back to nature, raw foods, fresh fruits and vegetables, raw goat milk and wild meats and wild caught fish.

    • Please support your assertions with some actual evidence. Grains are the seeds of certain grasses, so saying that animals should only be fed grasses and not grain makes little sense. Beans are legumes, not grains.

      Please provide evidence that you can cure cancer with a raw food diet. Raw milk does contain lactose, so please provided evidence that people who no long produce lactase can drink it.

      Also, be sure that the evidence is real and can be found in my local medical school library.

      Thank you.

  16. My stance on raw milk is as follows: because of how many rants I’ve heard about the benefits of raw milk, (angry rants about government conspiracies as well) I REFUSE TO EVER TOUCH THE #$%# STUFF!!!)

  17. The facts I know are this:

    – Since I’ve replaced store bought milk with raw milk, I feel a hundred times better; like I’m in my 20’s again.

    – My daughter who used to have asthma has not had one single attack or episode since she’s been consuming raw milk and can now run without losing her breath.

    – Other than a slight sniffle, I didn’t get sick once this past winter while everyone around me was sick at least once if not multiple times. (This was my first winter consuming raw milk.)

    – My cousin who is lactose intolerant has gone with me to purchase raw milk on a few occasions and loves the fact that he can drink it without any problems or side effects, unlike regular milk.

    – Anyone who believes the health industry is looking out for their best interests is a complete and udder (hehe) fool! Take cancer for instance! If our medical industry is so friggin great then explain to me this: every year more and more money and research goes into curing cancer, yet each year more and more people die from the disease. We’ve spent billions on a cure and yet the ratio of those who get the disease continues to grow.

    – Eating raw has kept me healthy and away from the doctor’s office. Meanwhile, those around me like my father, that have bought into the fraud that is the medical industry, keep taking on more prescription medications accompanied by more doctor visits.

    – My father who is now up to 9 or so prescription medications a month and once showed the same confidence in our health/medical industry as some of the posters above is just now coming to me with interest in raw foods and homeopathic medicine.

    While I do believe there is a place for doctors and medical personnel as in the case of emergency situations etc., I’ve seen too many examples as to why holding anything more than those ideals is a fool’s bet and borders on compete ignorance. While I can’t help but laugh every time I hear about a drug recall, I feel sorry for the poor suckers that suffer(ed) from it.

    I still to this day cannot comprehend how people will so easily put their faith in men (doctor’s) and their medicine, yet have trouble putting their faith in God/nature. I can only assume that those who knock it, simply have yet to try it and misery loves company. So I say go ahead and keep being stubborn, while I keep getting healthier!

    Best of luck to those of you that hold faith in the medical industry. I’ll take my chances with raw foods and vitamins, thank you very much!

  18. Oh, and to think that I almost forgot!

    Say what you want about the risk of drinking raw milk. My odds of getting sick and dying from it still aren’t as bad as this:

    Keep loving those doctors!

    • Strawman argument. You cannot prove something is good and healthy by exclaiming something that is unrelated is bad. Besides, there are far more people who have been saved by real medicine and science than by drinking raw milk. Especially all of the cases of tuberculosis, brucellosis and E. coli by pasteurization (the former TB sanatorium is now the campus of a private preschool to 12th grade school).

      In your previous comment:

      While I do believe there is a place for doctors and medical personnel as in the case of emergency situations etc., I’ve seen too many examples as to why holding anything more than those ideals is a fool’s bet and borders on compete ignorance.

      Be sure to educate yourself on the symptoms of E. coli so that you can get yourself and your family treated as soon as possible. Since raw milk is legal in my state, we get to read stories about kids getting infected at least once a year.

      • Aaargh… left out a phrase: “Especially all of the cases of tuberculosis, brucellosis and E. coli that were prevented by pasteurization.”

        By the way, the former TB sanatorium was the site for Betty MacDonald’s memoir of her TB treatment, The Plague and I. She was also the author of The Egg and I and the Mrs. Piggle-Wiggle series of children’s books. Her books give a nice historical context to the early part of the 20th century, with a good sense of humor.

        I believe that reading about the “good ol’ days” is important in that you learn to not repeat them. Especially the child mortality numbers that were prevalent less than a century ago.

      • Chris, while I appreciate your advice, if you do your do diligence and do the research on raw milk, you would find that in all the cases of E. Coli related to raw milk (that I’m aware of) have in fact had nothing to do with the raw milk itself, rather it was the inhuman ways that the milk was collected. So, regardless of whether it was raw milk being collected or another product being produced, gathered or harvested the result could have been the same.

        Cows were not meant to be locked up in close-knit quarters, rather they were meant to roam. As in all things, bad things happen when greed and money are brought into the equation.

        In addition, whenever blame is to be placed on something, you should always look to find the true cause of the problem. In all the cases that I’ve come across regarding illnesses related to raw milk, there was always something that was causing the raw milk to be unsafe/insanitary. As you know this can and does happen with other foods that we consume, yet we still consume them without altering the product. The key thing is, the government has not yet found a way to make money off the alteration of said products or else we’d be looking at a similar pasteurization process with spinach, broccoli, tomatoes, lettuce, etc. However, even with the risks associated with those produce, we still can consume them in their natural state (aside from possible herbicides and pesticides that is).

        I worked for the government for years and left on my own accord due to how corrupt, greedy and evil it is and if there is one thing I’ve learned, the government will always try to make a buck when it can even if that means making money ahead of what is best for is citizens. With the state the United States is in, if you haven’t realized this by now, then you are lost, my friend.

        Forgive me if I’ve lost all hope in our government and in addition anything else who’s underlying motivation is to make money. However, I believe that there is only One that can rule my life without fail and I trust that He gave us all we need in nature and that the closer our foods are to what He provided, the better off we are. We can think we know what is best, however only He truly does and He doesn’t care about making a buck.

      • Chris, while I appreciate your advice, if you do your do diligence and do the research on raw milk, you would find that in all the cases of E. Coli related to raw milk (that I’m aware of) have in fact had nothing to do with the raw milk itself, rather it was the inhuman ways that the milk was collected.

        Go back to the table of infections from raw milk I linked to, check out the licensed raw dairies that had outbreaks and show me where there were issues of “inhuman ways.” You made a claim, therefore you need to support it, claims that some agency is “corrupt” just on your say-so is not sufficient.

        You need to also explain very carefully why cases of bovine tuberculosis was reduced if it was not due to pasteurization.

        Sure, if you want to trust in God/the One/Omniscient Entity of Choice, go ahead. But everyone else needs to bring evidence, and that includes you.

        Especially since nature brought us things like typhus, tuberculosis, ricin, poisonous honey from bees that used rhododendron nectar, poison hemlock, tetanus, and other fun treats… because whether you like it or not: Nature does care if you live or die. By the way I just finished reading Amy Stewart’s book Wicked Plants, and I am halfway through her book Wicked Bug. Read those and try to tell me that “I trust that He gave us all we need in nature and that the closer our foods are to what He provided, the better off we are.”

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