Skeptic Family

I use sea-salt and our County in Britain and most of Europe does not have fluoride in the water. We use non fluoride toothpaste for our son (2 years old) because he swallows it. Fluoride does not have to be swallowed to be effective in reducing tooth decay. Toothpaste with fluoride is OK for adults if you choose to use it, but to put it in the water is a form of mass medication and potentially harmful and even fatal especially if a case of fluoride overfeed occurs.

the following book has information about specific incidents of fluoride overfeed;
Water Fluoridation Principles and Practices
By Awwa, Bill Lauer, Frederick Rube

While the adamant pro-vaccine and against vaccine groups get most of the coverage, and the autism issues gets most of the press, the majority of people who question vaccine safety simply want just that–they want safe vaccines. They are not opposed to vaccinating their children, they just want issues to be addressed and not brushed aside. They want their children vaccinated as safely as possible, but for far too long, vaccines have been a “sacred cow.” Question anything, and you immediately lumped together with the extreme opposition.

As a healthcare professional who worked for many years in pediatrics, I would say one issue is that we have no idea how safe it is to give an infant so many vaccines (some now give 5 at one time), and so close together. The human race has never had so many vaccines, and more and more keep being added to the vaccine schedule. An infant has an immature immune system, and to bombard it with so many different vaccines, all at the same time, and then at very close intervals–well, we have no idea. Don’t let anyone tell you that its “safe” because no one knows. There is no long term data.

But what we do know is that there is a dramatic increase in life threatening allergies, for one. The number of people with asthma in the US. has increased throughout the 1980s and 1990s and shows no sign of abating. Could this be related to vaccines, even partly? That immune systems are out of whack? It’s possible.

Anyway, those are the issues that I see. And when some doctors recommend a less intensive vaccine schedule, one less likely to cause damage or any adverse events, they get laughed at or told that they are “dangerous” or putting the child in danger. Just because someone came up with the current vaccination schedule, doesn’t mean its the best one. For instance, why are newborns being given a Hepatitis B vaccine the day after birth? Hep B is transmitted the same way as HIV, so why does a newborn need the vaccine? What’s wrong with waiting until school age with that one?

ja and the soldiers that received the anthrax vaccine are doing awesome , and vaccines distributed to third world countries never had birth control in them, keep collecting the dividents from your big pharma shares

I don’t believe salt is fluoridated in Britain. Fluoridated salt is available in some EU countries, but I’ve never heard of it in the UK. As a UK citizen I have an interest in Iodization of salt, so I would of expected to know if other minerals were routinely added. Most UK table salt is sodium chloride with anticaking agents, most UK table salt is not iodized. My salt of choice is Lo-Salt, part Potassium Chloride, not Iodized in the UK (it is in America).

Nearly all toothpastes, and nearly all mouth washes in the UK are loaded with fluoride, in the UK. My child’s toothpaste is 1 part per thousand sodium fluoride. So anyone exercising any regular dental hygiene practices will get ample fluoride without water fluoridation.

Unlike vaccines I think there may be a case for avoiding water fluoridation. The benefits are limited, one can avoid dental caries in other ways, there are common adverse effects (20%+ of US kids have dental fluorosis), some very small minority groups have to maintain low fluoride intake for medical reasons. Additionally any additional processing of our water has the scope to go wrong and result in much higher concentrations of fluoride being experienced on occasion.

As such it worries me that water fluoridation has become almost a litmus test for some pro-science groups, when as a medical issue dental caries whilst important is generally easily treated.

In the UK we don’t even meet the WHO guidelines for giving our old folk seasonal influenza vaccines. As such water fluoridation probably wouldn’t feature high on a rationally based agenda of public health. Indeed the people most affected by dental health are the socially deprived, so dental caries does respond to general improvements in living standards. Unlike (as the CDC points out so well) many of the diseases we vaccinate against.

Hi , new reader to an old comment, but I just wanted to add a few comments. I am leaning on the side of less or no vaccines now. I agree there is much corruption and misinformation on all sides. Almost always for profit. So, let’s not forget how much money the pharmaceutical companies make. Do you really believe the CDC, WHO, and FDA have our best interests in mind and have great science? I know not all government is bad, but it is mostly corrupt with lobbyists and bad science. I am a PhD scientist and I know about junk science like in Climategate so I don’t blindly trust studies the CDC quotes. We have to question everyone and everything we are told. Do you really believe that your pediatrician is current on all the literature???? No, they barely have time to read one or two journal articles a month probably, and they are relying on the science they were taught by the heavily drug-influenced medical schools.

Just look at the flu issue for proof. If the CDC had our true good health in their minds, they would at least tell us about the benefits of Vitamin C and Vitamin D at the same time as they recommend a vaccination for the flu to give us choices. Instead they (FDA)want to make health claims about Vitamin D criminal! All is not well at the upper levels, and it would be wrong to assume so. It is well known that Vitamin D levels are critical to many illnesses.

Just some thoughts. While looking for science based proof, make sure it is good science. Also, look for proof that vaccines actually work and are needed. I have read that article about increased health conditions eliminating most diseases and it makes sense to me, what’s wrong with it. Also, an intramuscular injection is not the same as something that is swallowed, so any toxins in there will react differently. So, I would argue that mercury received intramuscularly is not equivalent to eating fish with mercury in it. Not the same waste channels available there. In the muscle, direct to the blood and brain, versus through the intestines and bladder. Not equivalent.

I would also argue other environmental factors (cell phones, EMF, processed foods) could be driving autism also, but you can’t deny that when a child stops talking 0-3 days after receiving a shot, that the vaccine at least triggered something. Still not good. Why would a parent lie about this type of information. Of course they would not, so we must look at the experimental data from parents and listen to the facts as well. Many CDC studies do not even look at this.

Good points Simon, I have to say for the last year or so I have been reading and believing the anti-vaccine movement. After reading this site and some others I am starting to see all is not well on that side of the argument. So, I am now trying to re-evaluate things and see why that movement is wrong. My main motivation is my 9 month old, 2 year old and 5 year old kids. I am debating delaying or stopping vaccines on the youngest one. The others are too late, mostly. I just want to do what is best and not to harm them.

I am coming around slowly. My degree is physics, so I am biologically challenged sometimes. When I stop and think about it, I agree most of the anti-vaccine movement is more emotional than scientific sometimes. But it IS very easy to believe the government is corrupt and that the big money of pharmaceuticals is changing the science that is done. I know government/industry grant money changes research in physics, why shouldn’t it in medicine. Let’s not forget how we were told for years that smoking was good for you.

What you said about the miscarriages in women makes sense, you must expect a certain baseline of those, regardless of vaccine or not. Good points.

I guess one sticking point I still have is on the mercury and aluminum in some, but not all vaccines. As far as I have seen, not much has been mentioned about aluminum in research. But the link with Alzheimers and aluminum cookware was a strong argument several years ago. I would argue that intramuscular vaccinations introduces the vaccine ingredients into the bloodstream (bypassing the gut barrier protection), possibly making them much more potent. So, my fear is , no one has studied the body’s ability to purge itself of aluminum and mercury when directly injected. I know studies show that when you eat it, all should be ok for purging the metals. I have a hard time believing we can equate those two mechanisms without further studies. Needle injection is definitely not a normal means of assimilating any substance into the body in nature.

One more point I worry about. About pediatricians/general practitioners being well-read, I would argue the majority of them are too busy to really be up-to-date, except for propaganda (good or bad) handed to them about the latest drug or vaccine by drug reps. My wife is a nurse, so I have a bit of insight into that side of the medical world. I hope that the doctors are well read, but I know better than to assume that. If the information they get from the drug rep is good then all is well, if not we get damage in patients like with Vioxx. We should not blindly trust the pharmaceuticals, therefore we can’t not blindly trust the doctors.

Thanks for taking time to listen to my concerns and help me figure things out.

I would have to concur with the thoughts of your very first commenter. I do not vaccinate my kids and it has zilch to do with autism. My oldest went into a seizure and then respiratory arrest after after one of these “harmless” vaccinations. He was on life support for 3 days. He ended up with epilepsy due to scarring on his brain and his pediatric neurologists confirmed that vaccination was the cause but they refused to put it in writing for “legal” reasons. All they would put in writing was a recommendation to halt all further vaccinations for this child. After their refusal my eyes were opened to the fact that this is very much a conspiracy. Those people you trust in for your science based conclusions are lying to you so their institutions won’t lose pharma funding. The CDC and the APA are in bed with the companies that make vaccines. You might as well go direct to the vaccine manufacturer and take their opinion as gospel. It is a truly naive person who believes that the vaccines are safe. All I have to do is look at my son for “scientific proof” that vaccines cause harm.

“Those who are not vaccinated have a 100% chance of contracting the diseases to which they are exposed.”

You lose all credibility with such a patently false statement.

“Which is why I am baffled why the vaccines are considered a greater risk than the diseases.”

I think the reason you are baffled is because vaccines contain toxins. Toxins given at low doses are not poisonous, but given multiple vaccines at once increases the amount of toxins “injected” into the body. I guess my question is , how much is too much? At what point does it become a poison? I believe the FDA has a standard on maximum amount of aluminum in injectable solutions for infants at 25mcg per liter. Why does their standard not also include vaccines. Are they not injectable? Why does the Hep B vaccine contain 225mcg of aluminum and no one is saying, hey that is way above FDA standards? These are logical questions in which no one seems to know the answers to. Some vaccines contain as much as 875mcg of aluminum. Crazy! I can not listen to the rhetoric of how much aluminum is in breast milk and that we should ban breast milk. It is true that injectable aluminum is processed and excreted quite differently than swallowed aluminum, correct? Why can’t I find not one LONG TERM study showing the effects of multiple vaccines given at once on the human body. I feel as though the struggle for most parents who choose not to vaccinate is because we never get straight answers. Not from pediatricians, AAP, CDC, FDA, scientists. Please help me with these answers. I am very open-minded and would like your input.

On another note, do you agree that our children are over-vaccinated and over-medicated, over-fed, undernourished and have record levels of chronic illness and developmental delay?

Chris- Can you stop comparing aluminum in the environment or diet to aluminum being injected? You know it is processed differently depending on how it gets into the body. Why do you keep ignoring that fact? Also, you ignored the amounts of aluminum in each vaccine and should we recognize the fact that the FDA does not set a maximum standard of aluminum for a vaccine? Is it because they have done the studies to show safety? No. Then why would the FDA have a standard for aluminum in iv solutions but not for vaccines? Both are injected- granted one intramuscularly and one intravenously. Logical and intelligent people would like to know the answer.

Wow. I was given this site by a pro vaccine guy to give me info.. All I can say now Chris, is that you have reinforced my anti vaccine with all your dodging… Thanks Lisa and Child health and vinoman for you links and such and rebutting Chris… And Chris not rebutting hardly a thing with any sense.